Loren Grush

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Show notes

In this interview with Bloomberg space journalist and author Loren Grush, we talk about her childhood growing up around Johnson Space Center with two NASA Engineers and how that led her to unearth the stories of NASA’s first women astronauts.

Transcript:

Hello and welcome. I’m Liz Booker, Literary Aviatrix, and I’m excited to talk with the author of the Aviatrix Book Club Discussion Book for March 2024, The Six: The Untold Story of America’s First Women Astronauts.

Fewer than 10 percent of pilots and aircraft mechanics are women. These are their stories of tenacity, adventure, and courage. Stories with the power to inspire, heal, and connect. Welcome to the Literary Aviatrix community, where we leverage the power of story to build and celebrate our community and inspire the next generation of aviation.

Loren Grush, welcome.

[00:00:55] Loren: Thanks so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here.

[00:00:57] Liz: Oh my gosh, I’m so excited to talk to you and to hear about this book and everything that you do in your life to bring you to it. Just like every other nonfiction book, you have a very descriptive subtitle that tells us a lot, but for those who haven’t had a chance or aren’t familiar with your book, can you give us a synopsis?

[00:01:09] Loren: Sure. So the book is The Six, The Untold Story of America’s First Women Astronauts. And it’s basically right there in the title. I detail the lives and the first flights, the first six women that NASA selected for the shuttle program, and the first American women to fly to space.

[00:01:25] Liz: And thank you so much for the work that you did to bring this history to light.

This was definitely a gap in our canon, and you’ve just kind of plugged that hole for us so well. I really appreciate it. I had the opportunity  -we talked about Eileen Collins’ book in November and had the opportunity to talk to her. But yeah, this truly, filled in that story that I wrote an article recently for Aviation for Women magazine and talked about sort of my my dream to become a pilot because I wanted to be an astronaut.

But I was completely oblivious to these women’s stories. And I knew that they existed, but I didn’t know in depth or understand what they went through, even though I was alive and kind of hanging around Johnson Space Center as a teen. I still was clueless that all this stuff was going on. So thank you so much for bringing it to us.

And you know, I’m catching you on a very busy day. We’re recording on February 24th. And you have a very special role today. Tell us about your career, what you do now and how all of that brought you to this book to tell this story.

[00:02:42] Loren: Yeah, absolutely. So my day job, I am a space reporter for Bloomberg. Before that I worked as a space reporter for seven years at a website called The Verge. It’s the technology and culture website from Vox Media.

And, yeah, so I kind of live and breathe all things space. And just recently this whole week was kind of a wild one, because a company based out of Houston, speaking of Johnson Space Center, called Intuitive Machines landed a spacecraft on the surface of the moon, and that came with a bunch of notable firsts.

It was the first time that a private company had landed a vehicle on the moon intact. A lot of others have tried, but maybe they’ve crashed or they didn’t even make it there. And then also, if you can believe it, it’s the first time that we’ve landed a U. S. made spacecraft intact on the surface of the moon since the last Apollo mission in 1972.

So this was a very big moment for the commercial space industry and also for the U. S. in terms of its efforts to get back to the moon, too.

[00:03:53] Liz: Back to the moon and onward, right? Yes. Yeah, exactly. Very exciting. So what, how did you get into that business?

[00:04:01] Loren: You mentioned hanging out at JSC as a teenager. I also did the same thing, but I don’t know if I was necessarily doing it voluntarily.

 So I grew up outside of Houston. My parents both worked at NASA’s Johnson Space Center as part of the shuttle program. And so I grew up adjacent to the campus and I was there constantly. You know, and I like to say my community was also very Space filled, you know, it wasn’t strange to have parents who worked for the space center because it was such a big part of the community.

 I was constantly joking that there was a time when I thought everybody’s parents had to be an engineer, that was just the job you were assigned when you grew up and became an adult. But then when I learned that you could be a doctor or a lawyer or whatever, I was blown away. I just thought everybody was in the space program and an engineer of some kind.

 Yeah, I like to say that space was in my blood from the beginning. My parents met and fell in love working at NASA. And it was just kind of always around me. But then when it came time to figure out, you know, what I wanted to do with my life, I realized that I had more of a creative side to me. I liked telling stories.

I always had a video camera in my hand when I was growing up one of those really old camcorders. And I was constantly making home movies and creating stories that way. So I knew early on, I wanted to tell stories in some capacity. I also loved acting. I loved, you know, play acting and creating.

So I decided to go the route of journalism. I thought that would be a great way to kind of satisfy that creative streak in me. But then when I left. I grew up in this town called Friendswood. I had a bit of a perspective shift cause you know, back when I was a teenager, I, there was a time when I really wanted nothing to do with space, to be honest just because it was such a thing, such a huge presence in my life.

And you know, what your parents do isn’t necessarily always the coolest thing. And so I really kind of wanted nothing to do with space for awhile. And then when I moved away. And I started telling people about the community I worked, or I lived in and what my parents did, you know, I would see the light kind of shining out of their eyes and how they would perk up and be so excited to hear about it.

And that gave me a really nice perspective shift and I realized, you know, Oh, it’s actually really unique that I got to grow up this way. You know, you forget that when you grow up in a community where everybody is working for the space program, you don’t think it’s unique until you really leave and learn how special it was.

And so that kind of, I started to have a bit of a turning around after that. And so then when I started to pursue a career in journalism, I was starting to think, I wonder if I could tell stories of science and innovation. You know is that something I could do? And I have learned that there’s a whole thriving industry for science journalism.

And then I thought, I wonder if I can hone that even further and be a space reporter. And so I started making choices. And career moves to get me to that place. And ultimately I did find The Verge, which let me write about space full time. And it’s been a wild ride ever since then.

[00:07:29] Liz: That is a fabulous story and so inspiring, Loren.

Thanks for sharing it. I think, you know, I have a lot of people say things to me and I know the rest of us pilots do have, you know, we talk to people who say, Oh, I would, I could never fly plane. It’s terrifying. I’m here to tell you that, especially in my twenties and thirties, and even when I started this project, the idea of having to be put together and on camera and be able to speak like impromptu and do interviews and stuff like that you do, that was terrifying to me.

So it’s really inspiring to see somebody who’s young and smart and who has the confidence to get in front of a camera and speak with authority and you obviously have the credibility for that. So you’re just like, we’re all about inspiring, you know, young people to hopefully join us in aviation, but you are inspiring in different ways and wonderful ways.

And so we’re glad to have you out there representing in the way that, that you are.  

[00:08:26] Loren: And thank you. I feel like I’m going the opposite direction. You went the piloting route and then came on camera. I went on camera. I think. I learned the technical skills afterward. Yeah,

[00:08:37] Liz: Do you fly?

[00:08:39] Loren: I don’t, but it’s definitely a dream of mine to get my pilot’s license at some point.

I mean, I just feel like I’m in a community of people who are like that. You know it’s very, people that love to explore and love to learn new things. And that’s very much me. You know, each time I go on a new assignment or meet someone in the space program, you know, I’m always learning how they. For instance, I did a story at SpaceX and there was some astronauts there and they flew over in their T 38s and I was just so jealous that they got to just hop in their plane and fly home, whereas I had to go through security and, you know, ride coach.

I was like, man, I want to just have my own plane just to take home with me. That sounds like a great thing. A great skill to have.

[00:09:25] Liz: Yeah, for sure. We can’t wait till you join us. And I think I saw, I think when I was researching you, I saw some videos of you out there getting to do some really cool stuff.

Maybe that was when you were with The Verge. Where would we find you on social media and stuff? And you’re crazy on X right now. So yeah. Yes. Anywhere we can find you.

[00:09:44] Loren: So yes I started on Twitter now, X and I’m just at my name at Loren Grush. And then I’m also on. Instagram, which is at Grush Crush.

 That was more of a personal Instagram, but it’s now become a hybrid of my personal and professional life. And then, yeah, I guess I’m exploring other platforms now that there’s kind of this platform apocalypse going on. I’m also on threads, which is through my Instagram account. And then I try to join some of the other social media accounts, but those have not stuck yet.

So those are my biggest ones are those three platforms at the moment, maybe some new ones moving forward.

[00:10:26] Liz: So with all of this background and the work that you do, I can totally see how you came to the topic of this book, but talk about that. What was the inception? When did you decide, Oh, you know what?

I’m going to write about these ladies.

[00:10:41] Loren: Yeah, so I think I’m coming up on about a decade as a space journalist specifically, and one of the things that was really kind of difficult when I first started was feeling very out of place. As we progress and things become better and more diverse, it’s still a very male dominated industry, and it’s also the same way within the press corps, which it’s definitely getting better.

I’ve met a lot of amazing women who cover this beat, amazing men as well, but it could sometimes feel a little isolating. I always like to point out one of my first times going down in Cape Canaveral to cover a launch as a reporter. I remember I wore a nice blouse which to be fair, probably wasn’t the best choice given how hot and humid Florida is.

But I just remember some guy coming up to me and kind of making a cheeky comment about the clothes that I was wearing and wanting to run out of the room screaming, you know and I was probably one of, I don’t think there were any other women there. I think I was maybe the only one or maybe one more. So it just, you know, it felt really isolating.

And so from the beginning, You know, elevating women in this industry, talking to women in this industry, talking to other women in the space reporting world has always been super important to me. And so that kind of got me thinking, you know, who are the first women in this? Obviously they had it much worse than I ever did.

And so that got me thinking, you know, who are the first women journalists? And then who are the first women in space? And then I stumbled upon this group and I realized, you know, I think I was like most of the general public when it came to knowing these women prior to doing the book, I knew of Sally Ride, I knew she was the first American woman in space but I did not know much about the other women that came in with her.

I didn’t really know that she’d come in with six other women, all of whom could have easily been the first American woman chosen to go to space. And so I, and then when I realized their story hadn’t been told as a group, I thought, what a great opportunity. to, you know, really educate myself and also create like a compelling narrative and elevate their stories.

Cause I’m, I assumed that the general public was probably just like me that they knew Sally, but they didn’t know the rest of the women. And I thought that was a great opportunity.

[00:13:11] Liz: Yeah. I think you’re right about that. You know, just like I said I was down there growing up as a teenager. I was in an aviation high school program.

 My parents encouraged me. They weren’t in the space program. They were academics, but they would take me to, to the space center for birthdays and stuff like that. And I still didn’t know, didn’t realize that I had all these women that I could have been looking up to. So thank you again for bringing that to light.

And I can’t imagine like doing the research for this. This is a very thorough, basically almost a biography of six different women. Talk about the research.

[00:13:51] Loren: Yes. I like to joke that I did this book on difficult mode because I, we sold it in the summer of 2020 and I’m sure you can imagine what we were all doing back then.

And I thought, oh, it’s just gonna be so easy. I have all this time to spend at home to work on the book. But the truth is it was probably the hardest time to actually do a book that required a lot of archival, you know, diving through history because all the archives were closed. And I couldn’t go to anything in person.

A lot of that stuff is not digitized. And I’m sure there’s stuff that I lost by not being able to go or stuff I, maybe colorful things I did not, could not be able to include because I just couldn’t go in person. There are certain videos that I really wanted that I wanted to NASA to give me, but their people weren’t going into the office either.

And so I had to do some freedom of information acts to get the stuff that I was looking for. And then everything was on Zoom because, you know, just in terms of safety, talking to people, it all had to be remote. So I did very little traveling for this, which was really quite sad because I feel like one of the great things about writing a book is to get to travel.

One of the benefits though is that I knew Johnson Space Center pretty well. So I knew how to describe it. I knew what the area was like. Yeah. So I had done my traveling, I guess, growing up, but yeah, in terms of diving through the archives and getting the material I needed, I had most, most of that I had to do remotely and digitized, but it also felt a bit like being a sleuth, you know, or being a detective of some kind, just kind of, you know, finding the next piece of the puzzle that you needed and then having that direct you to the next piece of the puzzle and talking to people who have told me, Oh, I need to talk to this person, you know, is just very much a very piece by piece.

Trajectory to get to where I needed.

[00:15:58] Liz: That’s cool. I, you know I can imagine how difficult that was. It was difficult for everyone to do things during COVID and yeah, disappointment that you couldn’t travel for it. But yeah, you do bring all of your personal. Knowledge from kicking around there.

That’s so fabulous. Now, let’s get into these women. You mentioned Sally Ride. A lot of us know a little bit about her, but as much as you can or as much as you want to. Can you kind of give us a feel for the other five women that we get to know in your book?

[00:16:29] Loren: Yeah. So obviously most know, Sally Ride.

She was the first American woman in space. And then in the order in which they flew you have Judy Resnick. She was an electrical engineer. Then came Kathy Sullivan, who was the first, she was an explorer and oceanographer and geologist. She was the first American woman to perform a spacewalk.

After her was Anna Fisher, a medical doctor who was the first mom to fly to space. Followed by Ray Seddon, also a medical doctor, and then Shannon Lucid, who was a chemist, and she may have been the last, but she would actually go on to break plenty of records. She’s known for a record breaking stint on the space station. And at one point, I believe she held the record for the longest continuous stay in space by an American and a woman. But that has been since been broken. But she did help hold that title for a while.

[00:17:27] Liz: Okay. And so So, you had to have found out lots of fun things when you were doing this research.

So talk about some of that, like what really surprised you during the research? Or you know, did you come across any gems where you were like, Oh, this is so exciting that I got to find this out. I can’t wait to share it. Tell me about some of those moments.

[00:17:46] Loren: Yeah. So a lot of the stuff that I was working with is already out there.

You just had to know where to find it. The things that I delighted in were things that I would learn that I didn’t necessarily know already. Just like little stories here and there. For instance, there’s a great story that John Fabian tells me towards the end of the book, where he talked about how he wanted to, he was retiring, and he and Sally took a flight together in one of the T 38 jets and did all sorts of things. Twists and tricks in the sky, and he said that was exactly how I wanted to end my time at NASA.

It’s just little beautiful moments like that you just feel really special to hear and get to know. I would say in terms of, I think I went in with a preconception about what I was going to find, so I thought I was going to come in and that everybody at NASA was gonna be kind of stodgy and mean and the men were gonna be, you know, really sexist.

And ultimately, that’s not what I found. There were some who definitely were not necessarily excited about women joining the astronaut program, but they definitely kept it to themselves or they did not say it to the women’s faces from what I learned. And then a lot of them came around. So there’s, you know, there’s a great Mike Mullane, one of their, one of the astronauts who wrote his own book, talks about when he first came on, he was a quote, a self proclaimed sexist pig.

And then when he worked with the women, he started, he came around and realized, you know, that was a, you know, outward dated way of thinking. What really surprised me, and I guess it wasn’t a surprise, I guess what I found was that, you know, if there’s an enemy of this book, in this book, or an antagonist the irony is it’s the press.

[00:19:39] Liz: I was going to dig in on that with you. I’m glad you brought it up.

[00:19:43] Loren:. Yeah. No it’s funny as a reporter talking about this because technically I’m the Yeah, exactly. Which I understand, so while there were some hiccups and culture clashes when women were integrated into the Corps, it really was how they were treated by the press, the interviews they got, the questions they were asked, that really, It showcased the culture they were up against, the biases they were up against at the time, and just kind of how the country was feeling.

[00:20:19] Liz: It would be like this, Hey, Loren, what’s it like to be a redhead and be reporting on . . . I mean, that’s kind of, you did such a good job of like kind of, of emphasizing or highlighting just how horrendous the public was about this and all of the things that you just said were probably my biggest takeaways were, and I got this sense when I read Eileen’s book a little bit, I was like, come on, girl, it couldn’t have been that easy.

But I think that at that point like you said, at NASA, people just were there to respect your abilities. And they were able, you’re just sort of dealing, I think, with a different level of human being when you get to that level of open mindedness and, you know, creativity and able to shift your thinking maybe a little faster than the general public is able to.

And so I was pleasantly surprised for these women to find that they were, it sounded, respected for their abilities at NASA and didn’t have to deal with a lot of bullshit, just frankly. Yeah. Yeah. But that actually, the reporters and the public. We’re just ridiculous. Ridiculous. It’s embarrassing.

Yeah.

[00:21:36] Loren: And I think what I tried to also showcase was that. Even though, while NASA was, you know, very accepting and open to them, it was their time before, because these women were quite accomplished by the time that they had come onto the program, and the fighting that they had to do, just to be taken seriously in their professions before, I like to highlight Shannon, because she was slightly older than the rest of the group, and just that little generational gap, she, I mean, not that the women didn’t experience sexism, but the amount that she experienced was Insane, you know, she was constantly just trying to get a job or trying to be taken seriously or try to be paid fairly She had to deal with all sorts of comments of oh No one’s gonna pay you the same as a man or no one’s gonna hire you because you’re a woman You know, it’s just it was You know, it was wild to hear and especially this was happening not even 40 years ago.

I mean, it may be half a century ago and just, yeah, it’s not that far, you know, it’s not that long ago to think that they were dealing with stuff at this time. It made me very appreciative of, you know, You know, the life that I get to lead. And even when I feel uncomfortable, I think, man, at least I, you know, I had a generation of women like this come before me who helped pave the way so that I’m way less uncomfortable than they were at back then.

[00:23:00] Liz: Yeah, absolutely. What else, any other good stories that you loved that you want to share?

[00:23:07] Loren: Oh, I mean, there’s just, I mean, We talked about the incorporation of the women. So there’s obviously a lot of funny things that came about with the integration of the women into the astronaut core. Obviously a legendary story is the one about the tampons, you know, obviously NASA tried to make space for women space when they came in.

And so they’re trying to be accommodating and for Sally rides. first flight, which was seven days. They famously gave her 100 tampons as a precaution for before she flew to space. And she had to check them out in her gear before she, she left. And they were kind of strung together like sausages, which I thought it’s a hilarious moment.

[00:23:53] Liz: Many stories like that. That’s awesome. What do you, what impact do you hope that this book makes? Why, like, why did you want it out there in the world?

[00:24:05] Loren: Yeah I think it, it might seem intuitive and pretty obvious, but you know, representation is always important, right? You know, seeing women, Or seeing someone like you do something that you want to do I think speaks wonders and the fact that these were the first You know, it just shows kind of what they were up against at the time, what people thought about them at the time.

And again, an appreciation for the fact that you and I don’t have to deal with that at the same level at which that they did. The other is just, I wanted to show women wanting to do this. Just work and do their jobs. And at the end of the day, they are extraordinary, but they’re also ordinary people just trying to do their jobs in an extraordinary work environment.

And so that was ultimately was trying to convey especially with the chapters where they go to space, just kind of showing what it was like for them to get ready to go to space, what it was like to do a job. I really just wanted to showcase people wanting to work. And they had just had all of these, they just had the.

microscope on top of them as they did it as well.

[00:25:16] Liz: Yeah. What advice do you have for young women just in general? You know, if they wanted to pursue a job like yours or do something extraordinary, what’s your advice? Yeah. I,

[00:25:31] Loren: that’s a very great question. I’ve been trying to think about that myself, you know, cause I love my job, but it’s very difficult.

And there are times when, you know, I’m like, is this worth it? Is it, you know, is it worth all the stress and the headache of it? And so I would just. I would say listen to your gut, you know when it comes to what decisions you want to make and also a lot of the, a way that I got to where I’m at was kind of not taking no for an answer and you know, saying yes to things that are scary that, that is also a path that I have taken.

I don’t know. I don’t know if this is necessarily advice I’d give, but it is the stuff that I’ve done. Even when it came to writing the book, you know, that was a scary prospect, but I’ve been kind of trying to say yes, even though things are scary, and sometimes you know, when it is scary, it’s a sign that it’s worth doing, you know, because it means that you’re moving on to a next step of something. So I guess that would be my advice. You know, imposter syndrome might be a big thing for people and I feel it every day, but just, it’s kind of ignoring it and just kind of forging ahead and, Yeah. Not letting people tell you that you can’t do something.

Just say yes.

[00:26:56] Liz: Good for you. Good for you. Fake it. I always say fake it till you make it. Yeah. I mean, that is part of it. I’m going to get just a couple of technical questions about getting a book like this published because there are lots of crevices of our history, our collective history of women in aviation and space that haven’t been told.

And so how did you go about pitching? Did you have an agent already? Like how did that work for you? The process?

[00:27:27] Loren: Yeah, I had an agent and basically we had to create a proposal and I don’t know, this was my first time doing it, so I’m sure there are other ways to do it. And. I hopefully will learn the other ways to do it when I pitch another book.

We’ll see. But yes, it was basically what I called it the most massive book report I’d ever done, but on a book that didn’t exist yet. So it was essentially kind of a summary of the story and where I saw it going. So very condensed version of what the book ultimately became and then the book also became a lot different because as I researched and learned more about it and spoke with people a lot of the assumptions that I had made or things that I had read I realized oh, you know, this is actually different, you know, I so there’s a lot you’ll learn through the Reporting and the researching process.

But yeah, I was essentially yeah, I had an agent and had to put together this massive book report. And then we sent that out and that’s we, you know, ultimately publishers, you know, said that they wanted to publish the book and then we picked the one we liked best.

[00:28:40] Liz: And what did your work process look like when you were actually working on the book?

I mean, we were in COVID, so obviously there was that, but how did you, how’d you approach that?

[00:28:51] Loren: Yeah, that, that took some time to figure out. So as a reporter, I’m definitely on a very different kind of timescale than I was with the book. So as a, you know, when you’re reporting the news cycle is a daily thing.

There are so many times where I’ll write a story and then I forget about it and I’m on to the next story in an hour. And so a lot of the stuff that I’ve written, it feels like ancient history at this point because, you know, I’ve moved on to five other stories since I’ve written it. That, it’s a very fast paced life and it can be very frustrating and wild, but at the same time, it is You know, it has its rhythm.

It has its routine and you don’t dwell too much in something because the deadline is fast approaching and you move on. So adjusting to this was a very different change in pace and tone, everything. I wound up taking book leave. I was at The Verge at the time. Took book leave and then I kind of had to figure out what my days look like.

So when I first got started, I spent about three months really researching and interviewing and just kind of trying to learn the story. I was very intimidated to start writing because it felt like such a daunting thing, you know, for a writer, the blank page is terrifying.

And so I think I kept putting off getting started because I was I just didn’t feel confident enough that I knew the story enough to get started If I were to do this over again, I think I would do it completely differently I think I would just get stuff on the page maybe in the morning time, you know Just something quick and easy because I think there’s also a thing that writers do at least I do Where you think your first draft has to be perfect.

And the answer is it does not have to be perfect. You have all the time in the world. Not all the time, but you have plenty of time to rewrite and it’s nothing set in stone. So it’s good just to get something on the page and get the juices flowing, and then you can research at the same time. So that would be my advice is.

Don’t be too intimidated to get started. Because by the time that I got started I was quickly coming up on the end of my book leave and realizing I had to go to work. So I ended up extending my book leave a bit just so I could get most of the book written. And even then I still didn’t finish it.

 By the time I went back to work, which I don’t recommend, cause I was basically working in the crazy news cycle. Monday through Friday, and then the weekends and weeknights were spent, you know, chipping away at the book. And then in terms of my daily schedule when I was writing on book leave, Yeah, it really was just, I had a set amount of words that I wanted to get done each day.

Someone had told me to set a thousand words a day, so I did that and You know, it worked, but it, I, again, I wasn’t finished by the time I had to go back. And so that was definitely a struggle. And so then I really worked ultimately two jobs for a good few months before I finally turned it in.

[00:32:11] Liz: Thanks for sharing all of that because you know, as much as it’s wonderful to hear that somebody is able to do things, you know like magic and you know, just in their sleep. It’s also helpful to those of us who struggle through things to hear how other people have dealt with their struggles.

So thank you for sharing that.

[00:32:32] Loren: Yeah, I will say, yeah, if there’s any comfort I can give to people struggling I would not call, I would not have described the three years of this process being very easy or soothing, if anything, I was, it was a lot of anxiety, you know, figuring out, and then another thing that I didn’t even get into is.

I’m sure other writers feel this way too. I describe the book writing process as a series of wins and losses. So one week you would get an amazing interview and you would think, Oh, I would have, I don’t know how I would have finished the book without this interview. And then another week, You don’t get an interview or you don’t get a piece of information that you desperately wanted desperately thought you needed.

But then it just makes you think more creatively. Right? If you don’t get that piece of information, you think, okay, how do I write around it? How do I. You know, navigate around this plot structure or whatever, but in the moment, it feels devastating. It feels devastating because you just think, Oh, this is going to be a massive failure.

Why did I even think to write this book? And then you’re doing this all in essentially isolation. So not even just COVID isolation, but mental isolation, because you’re the one writing this book yourself. Nobody’s really in it with you. So it’s very. Can we curse on this program? It was the biggest mindfuck I think I’ve ever experienced.

[00:34:06] Liz: Wow. Oh, that’s such a good quote. Yes. That’s awesome. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for being vulnerable enough to share all that because yeah I’m writing creatively and struggling through some of that myself. So all those demons are at my door

[00:34:27] Loren: If there’s anything I can offer to any other writers, that they are not alone.

And I, I think the only thing I really benefited from is that this story already happened. So, you know, there was a, there was an ending, so I don’t even know how fiction writers get to the end of their books. They are heroes in my mind. So more power to anybody who writes creatively because it is not easy and it is definitely very daunting.

[00:34:53] Liz: It doesn’t sound like you got completely scared away from ever doing it again from what you kind of hinted at earlier that you might someday in the future consider doing it again. You don’t have anything in the works right now, do you?

[00:35:07] Loren: No, I don’t. I went back to work and now I’m still swept up. As you can tell, having just covered a moon landing, still swept up in the daily news cycle, but I always say at some point it’ll slow down, which it never does. And then I’ll think about the next project.

[00:35:25] Liz: Speaking of this project how has it affected your life?

[00:35:29] Loren: Oh, you know, I, it’s been such a blessing and it feels so great. Because, so it’s such a strange experience going from, again, that isolation of writing to publishing. Because then it’s, you know, you’ve been in this story for however long, years and years at this point, all by yourself. And then all of a sudden people start reading it and, critiquing it and you’re just, I mean, you don’t know how people are going to take it.

It’s just a very, I remember when we first, cause you have to get blurbs, right? And we first sent out the manuscript to get blurbs. And I was like, wait, I’m not ready. I’m not ready for people to start reading it. But the response has been so positive and amazing. And I get so many, so much I’m just, wonderful feedback from people telling me how much they love the book or young women even, you know, I’ll go out on various talks or panels and things of that nature.

And women, young women will come up to me and tell me how excited they are to read it. And that’s just exactly what I was hoping for. You know, that’s. If it makes a dent in just a few people’s lives, then I think it was all worth all the pain and the heartache that went into making it happen.

[00:36:49] Liz: Good, again, we’re all grateful. I had the book – here locally down in South Florida, I go around to outreach events and bring a table full of books. And the most recent one that I did was actually on the space coast. And so I had your book out there and everybody was excited about it and taking pictures of it to go home and buy.

So you’re going to make an impact for sure, especially on those young women who aspire to space and aviation. And maybe you’ll inspire some to aspire to that too. That’d be great. This has been great. Is there anything else that you wanted to talk about before we wrap things up?

[00:37:30] Loren: To go back to the book you know Another thing that I hope people take away, so I think, I feel like we’re talking to both writers and future, maybe future astronauts.

One thing that I think the 6 is really great about illustrating is that there really is no one true path to space. You know, if you, when you read the book, you realize just how different the women are their different backgrounds different paths that they took. And I just think that’s really inspiring because And I think, especially when I was getting into journalism I thought, especially science journalism, at one point I was told that I would have a hard time becoming a space reporter because I hadn’t studied science before I came into this field, I had only gone into journalism.

And so that it’d be harder to market or that You know, it’d be harder for me to get a job and that really discouraged me because I thought, oh, I hadn’t taken the right path to becoming a journalist. And the great thing about, you know, what I learned and also from researching the women is that there is no perfect path to doing what you want to do.

Especially, and even when it comes to going to space of course, obviously there are certain, you know, desirable traits and certain fields that people want you to go into, but more and more we’re learning that those things aren’t necessary. And heck, even the whole jet piloting experience that they said you had to have in order to be an astronaut, look at, you know, they relaxed that requirement and look at the amazing women that came on board and the men that came on board with them, not all of them had, you know, jet piloting experience either.

So it just goes to show that there’s no one true path to get to achieving the dreams that you want to achieve. If you’re creative enough, you can find a way to make it work. As long as you just make those choices of how you want to get there and being smart about it.

[00:39:38] Liz: You know, to that point I’ll confess having had a little bias of my own, just in my mind, you know, I was told that you had to be a pilot first to be an astronaut. And that got cemented in my brain very early. Like, when I was. five years old. And so then becoming a pilot became like my singular focus.

And so I had this, I think one of the things that limited my curiosity or me learning more about these women when they were actually doing all of this stuff was the fact that they were mission specialists, not pilots. Right. And it was cool to hear how they did learn how to fly. And some of them like really got into it and bought their own planes and stuff. And so that was great to hear, but my attitude has certainly shifted. As an adult period, but also after reading this book and really appreciating the diversity of experience that they brought to this very dynamic environment that requires creative thinking.

And so I’m saying all that to encourage, to, I mean, there’s going to be like, we like to say now that there’s a place, no matter what your interest is, there’s a place for you in aviation, but that’s the same thing is going to be true of space. You know, no matter what you’re good at or interested in, there is going to be a place for you and your creative approach to solving problems and learning to adapt to that environment.

No, that was a great thing to point out. Loren. Yeah, I love that. You are in the mix right now, and I know I need to let you go. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you again so much for this gorgeous book. I feel privileged to have the opportunity to talk to you and good luck.

[00:41:31] Loren: I’m so glad we made it work. Thanks for dealing with the crazy moon landing.

[00:41:36] Liz: Absolutely. I’m retired, so I’m flexible. So this was great. Thank you so much.

[00:41:40] Loren: Thanks so much for having me.

[00:41:42] Liz: Thanks so much for listening. Join us in the Aviatrix Book Club in April to discuss Wings Around the World, the exhilarating story of one woman’s epic flight from the North Pole to Antarctica by Polly Vacher.

Check out the Literary Aviatrix website for this and hundreds of other books by or featuring women in aviation in all genres for all ages. And while you’re there, sign up for the Literary Aviatrix newsletter to stay up to date on all of the Aviatrix book news. If you enjoyed this interview on YouTube or podcast, please like subscribe and drop a review.

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